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The Diesel RV Club Technical Forum is an unofficial effort to enhance communication and exchange ideas and is open to anyone with an interest in Diesel Engines. Does the extra weight fully explain the mpg difference (I do a lot of climbing out here)? 2002 Newmar Kountry Star Cummins Diesel Pusher Class A Motorhome RV (Oceanside) $27,000 Cables for dual batteries Dodge Ram Cummins diesel 5 9 F-250 350 Ford (Battery cable Cummins diesel 7.3 powerstroke dual battery ca) $110 your turbo problem is either caused by carbon buildup in. Towing a Suburban with the Phaeton, here in the Rockies, I would average 7.2mpg. 58K on the odometer, 22,000 miles since complete restoration. Bob W. I've owned 3 Cummins, 1 Cat & 1 Mercedes. I have spent a lot of time there, but there is not much of anything in WY not just a CAT RV repair center, However there are plenty of CAT truck repair station in Cheyenne. per hour. Includes helpful tips for operation along with maintenance, parts and service information. As others have said anyone qualified to work on a Cummins can work on a Cat. Select a vehicle category below, or look through all of the products we offer for Dodge Cummins Motorhomes. Detroit Diesel / Mercedes Benz at 800-445-1980; Mercedes Benz Sprinter - 877-762-8267; Navistar at 331-332-5000; Click on Forum to view discussion topics. Looking at getting a MH and wondering how the 6.7L cummins with 340 HP preforms in the rocky mountains. We have a Cat and it suits our needs. Cummins new and improved Coach Care™ now offers complete chassis and major systems service to provide trusted RV service near you. That's just like a person who has only owned Chevys and never a Ford so therefore, Chevys are better than fords. If you can't find a place for your RV-related comment elsewhere on the forums, then this is the place to post it. But if the motorhome you find is a real deal make sure you have both the C9 and Allison computers revved to current levels and you should be fine. I have close to 19,000 miles on 400ISL, so it is as broken-in as my 360ISC. I just got back from the Grand Canyon, pulling the Suburban, and got 6.2mpg. Unlike Cummins, Cat is heavily invested in off road applications. Our list of RV Performance upgrades for Cummins-powered RV’s includes power RV Performance Chips or Modules, RV Performance Exhaust upgrades, and RV … That is a lot worse than I was getting with the Phaeton pulling the same toad. If it takes X hp to move Y weight, then it will take X+ hp to move Y+ weight. Rick, on a side note I must mention that I don't drive at 55-60 MPH either. RV’s are the new source of income for dealers and they are happy too receive the new uneducated owners with open arms. Whether I am loaded with 10k pounds of sand toys and trailer or just towing a 5k pound Jeep I generally have the cruise set at 67-68 MPH and run along with most OTR rigs. Towing a Suburban with the Phaeton, here in the Rockies, I would average 7.2mpg. Batteries at 12.8, disconnect switch power - Answered by a verified RV Mechanic But, if you want to tow 12,000 lbs better get a 3500 if you want a Cummins or you will likely be overloaded. I have a 33000 lb. actuator housing. Caterpillar RV Service Hotline at 877-777-3126. There isn't a dimes difference between Cummins and Cat. The VMSpc says I've been averaging 8.8 since the coach was new. After having driven a CAT C9 for over 95,000 miles, I still say the same thing. Any diesel can have a problem, it is serious if you can't repair it with shop rates over $100. For every mile and every gallon of diesel we are at 9.9 mpg. If we did get slowed down due to traffic it would pick the speed back up with no problem fully loaded (6 months worth of stuff) pulling 2800 lbs. Currently pulling a 4,000# Sport Trac. No power to dash n ignition switch. Your DH is right, Cummins is better than CAT. For example a 315 HP Cummins puts out 950 lbs torque where a 330 CAT only puts out 840 lbs of torque. CAT offers the RV industry a deal they cannot refuse and in thus doing so, stabilizes their dealers future. Lost it today 01 endeavor diesel cummins. Come join the discussion about reviews, drivetrain swaps, turbos, modifications, classifieds, builds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Also with the increased HP and torque of the 400ISL you may be a little heavier on the pedal going up hills. When I have a grade coming up such as Malad Pass up towards the Utah/Idaho border I will get to around 70 MPH at the base and downshift before the transmission does to keep it in its sweet spot as much as possible. If you drive a Cummins-equipped RV with either the 5.9L, 6.7L, 8.3L or 8.9L engines, Parleys Diesel has you covered. If you're lucky, none of the pieces will make it into the engine. brakes were stuck at the start. More required hp means more fuel required. Our current Motorhome has a Cummins. Both are reliable engines with excellent histories. I will have to do my own calculations and see what I get. View Handbook Jump to content. It's nice to be able to pass all those slower vehicles. Then, when computing MPG, I remove that fuel burned from the total fuel burned (average .5 GPH for each). Total miles is approaching 20k. How many miles do you have? Of course I've found the perfect rig - with a CAT. bad actuator motor. I have the 6.7 ISB in our 34' HR and all I have to say about it is that it pushes the RV down the road plenty fast, did 16,000 miles between 6/2 and 12/16 with no problems and ran over all of the I-40 passes on the way home on the cruise control at 60, I-15 from Vegas also. Hopefully the computer is a little off.... Mike, how hilly was your trip where you averaged 7.4? rdalcanto....Sometimes when I read mileage results I think the owner did his math on an abacus. Well, I have had both Cummins engines and CAT engines. It would be impossible to say one is better than the other without comparing specifics and even then each has comparable engines for size and weight coaches. Advantages the the Cummins are definitely the weight over the front axle when towing, exhaust brake, and power available at all RPMs. Getrag 5 speed, dual oil coolers, new clutch 1200 miles. ... Open Roads Forum > Class A Motorhomes > Maintenance Issues & Tips > … It may need some time to break-in a bit. Accelerate faster, get better mileage, better horsepower, and more from our selection of upgrades for your Dodge Cummins Motorhome, from the 1993 to the 2009 model years. S. W. Transmission Problem (wont let it start): 2010 Discovery II on Spartan Chassis with a Cummins 350 w/Allison. Also CAT has just announced they are no longer be in the OTR engine manufacture, all they'll make from now on are engines for heavy construction equipment. Most diesel engines in motorhomes, if properly maintained, will out last the coach. in many cases bad connection to motor. When I went from the Cummins 360ISC in my Phaeton, to the 400ISL in the Revolution, I was expecting similar mpg numbers. The Cat's have had issues with their ACERT technology and the Cats require a valve lash adjustment the Cummins does not, but overall, I would buy the coach I like and don't sweat the Cat or Cummins issue. Also compare rear end gear ratios. Unless you are really heavy the 07 ISB engine is great but I am sure the Cats are too. I will do the math on paper and see how it compares to the computer screen and post back. We have 41000 on ours and the average has been 8.8 mpg when adding all of the fuel purchases. The most popular heavy-duty engine in North America, the X15 is capable of powering premium motorhomes of any size with up to 605 hp and 1950 lb-ft of peak torque. Their revolutionary design makes these generator sets up to 15 dB(A) quieter than other diesel-powered generators, and quieter than most gasoline sets. WJOMullins; Jun 20, 2020; Replies 1 Views 305. With my 40-ft Horizon and a 425ISL I get 8-8.5 depending on the wind which I have found is my biggest factor. The mileage can come up a little after about 20k miles but don't expect a huge jump. I like to drive at about 60 mph or as soon as the coach drops into 6th gear. I know that the ACERT, two-turbo system on CAT, sometimes described as "an octopus making love to a set of bagpipes," has been a problem and the main reason CAT has gotten out of the road business. If we develop an engine problem will that be a serious problem? We also have a 4:88 rear gear so it has seemingly unlimited power and I do tend to use the power when needed. Powering You Through Life's Adventures Cummins and Onan have rich histories providing reliable stationary and mobile power around the world. Having driven both, I have to say I prefer the Cummins. Well, if you would have followed all the sage engine advice on this site you would easily note that one is the finest diesel engine ever manufactured while the other is an absolute piece of junk...only trouble is that i can never remember which is which!!! My best friend has had and still has 3 Dodge pu's and they are all still running great. Forget about towing a 5th wheel with a 2500 Cummins. Can only cat mechanics fix the engine? WJOMullins. Our engines and generators have led the way in reliable mobile power since mass production of RVs began in the 1960s – coming from our local manufacturing facilities in Minnesota and Indiana. Should I take the engine to Cummins and have them put it on the Dyno since it is under warranty? Class A / Diesel Pushers ... For Sale RV Front window full screen. 77 Dodge Xplorer 307 Frank Ind 25-ft Class A Motorhome 1st Gen '93 Cummins swapped in, stock '95 47RH/NP241, stock turbo, PS intercooler, Dana 60 front, Dana 70 rear, 4.10:1 gears, ARB lockers front and rear, 19.5 Rickson wheels, 33-inch tires, High-Angle driveline. The ISB XT combines industry-leading fuel economy and the highest power-to-weight ratio in its class. As the comedian George Wallace used to say, "Five on one hand, 1/2 of 10 on the other". Your mileage at 6.2 mpg may indicate a problem. The new Mercedes Benz Diesel Rotary engine is a tremendous option and will be available on the new Monaco roadmaster chassis by the new Monaco RV. Never had the rig weighed. 312.1K members. This handbook is a general supplement to the more specific information contained in the operator manual that comes with every new Cummins generator. Dodge debate. I just did a trip down Route 13 to the OBX and I show an average of 7.4....have gotten as much as 8.2 if I ease off the gas and cruise at 62 mph (that magic place where 6th just kicks in)....but then DW wants me to go faster......note that Route 13 has many traffic lights on it with varying speed limits. I DRIVE mine. They have all been done at Cummins Truck repair centers and most covered by warranty. We did run the generator while driving a lot on this trip, and don't know if the trip computer is incorrectly registering generator fuel consumption as Cummins fuel consumption (I doubt it sense the generator has its own fuel line right?) XT refers to extra torque for hill-climbing ability. Launched in 1999, the indices are one of the oldest measures of corporate sustainability. Skoolie for Sale - Ford E-450 School Bus RV Conversion (PRICE REDUCED) (Lakewood, CO) $18,500 1997 ford school bus 5.9 cummins mechanical 12 rows blue bird (TAMPA) $5,500 1999 Ford Thomas School bus conversion mid-build with 2 ft roof raise (Denver) $24,000 Tuned Cummins 4BT (P pump), turbo, intercooler, ram air, block heater, dual oil filters. Posted By: rdalcanto on 07/06/11 07:38am When I went from the Cummins 360ISC in my Phaeton, to the 400ISL in the Revolution, I was expecting similar mpg numbers. The Banks Power option for this application is the PowerPack, which consists of … so today i had to help my uncle get his rv up in the back of the yard chopped up some trees. Kind of like asking whether a Ford or Chevy is better-- except there there ARE some models of each that are better/worse. Jun 27, 2020. son32. Go with Cummins. What numbers are others getting with this engine? Funny...Cummins still makes diesel truck engines. Check with Wyoming Machinery for Cat parts and service. All systems updated. I bet your hubby has owned a Cummins but not a Cat....right? Gives a more accurate picture of the actual MPG, which is low 8s. The fact that a motor home had one or the other wouldn't enter into my decision. I wouldn't let engine manufacturer stop me if I found something I like. An old saying that nobody has offered here is: Maybe the same reason GM painted their engines black for a while starting mid-80's: black paint dissipates heat better. None better in my opinion. The oldest has around 350,000 miles on it. Banks Products for DIESEL MOTORHOMES - CUMMINS. Its like when your wife gives you a choice between the black or red nightie ....... Its all good . problems found in the actuator assembly. While there are no motorhome dealers in WY that sell or service CAT's, there are plenty of truck service centers who can and will work on your CAT. Forums; RVing In Class . I tow a '07 Jeep Wrangler. A year ago, I addded the VMSpc computer program and track trips by individual fill ups and overall trip mileage. With engines rated from 300 hp to more than 605 hp, Cummins offers power and reliability for every type of motorhome on the market. Boost, EGT and tachometer gauges. Our RV at the Banks testing facility. I keep the speed around 58 because California is 55 towing. Good luck getting the coach you want. An absolute worst-case scenario: Blowing the #1 turbo, which should be repaired by replacing both turbos and air-to-air cooler. I'm coming up on 40,000 miles on our ISL. This is like the old Ford vs. Chevy vs. This is a cummins 8.3 350 the road relay 4 is showing this message" SID 237 active 3 engine controller subsystem ID # 237 unidentifiable. For an outstanding reference on performance and MPG read the link below by Brett Wolfe. Both Cummins and Cat are world class engines. any way made the video by my cell phone so … Computer says 7.3 mpg since new. Cummins Power - Coach Care. Just for kicks....I have both a Cummin's and a CAT Service center near by.....I take my CAT to the Cummin's dealer with absolutely no problem or hesitation. I would not hesitate to buy a motorhome with a Cat engine. Gross weight is a big factor. I see a quick recap on MPG differences as: I get close to 8 when towing my 5K lb Hummer which puts me right at 40K lbs. chassis with a 400ISL (Weigh in at about 30000 lbs) and tow a small toad (3000 lbs) have 37000 miles on the coach and average pretty close to 7.75 mpg. Jun 20, 2020. I get in the high 7's to low 8's with my 400ISL, but I'm towing a Saturn Vue and not a Suburban. DH believes Cummins is superior to CAT. there are no absolutes in this world. I used to say when I was driving Cummins powered motorhomes that I would not pick the motorhome based on the color of the engine. The new coach is 6,000lbs heavier (36,000 vs 30,000). It just so happens that the Cummin's dealer is more suited to Motorhome service. ... Cummins / Onan 6500 propane gen … In 2020, only 142 companies made the North American index over nearly two-dozen categories, ranging from automobiles to utilities. The payload is so low on a 2500 Cummins that the 2500 Hemi will usually out tow the diesel if you are concerned with being legal. While CAT has gotten out of the over-the-road engine business, there are many places that can work on CAT truck engines and parts are widely available. Since I have hour meters on the generator and the Aqua Hot, I log their hours when I refuel. Share motorhome advice and have all your motorhome questions answered 24/7. No offense to WY. I have owned both and worked on both and would not let one dictate a purchase or not if you were comparing two similar coaches equally equiped. The information applies to any device pushed down the road with a diesel engine. But for me, I could probably get away with a 2500 HEMI payload, but Cummins means 3500. The ISB XT carries forward many of … Pick the rig that suits your intended use! I would also buy a rig with a Detroit Diesel without a second thought. I'm going to Jackson Hole in a couple weeks. RV Generator Handbook The RV Generator Handbook contains basic information that will allow you to use and maintain your new generator. Fail Mode" what does this mean? On hills I let the computer manage shifting. Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum Since 2005 A forum community dedicated to Dodge Cummins Diesel truck owners and enthusiasts. I would avoid the Cat C9 engine since it was underpowered compared to the Cummins ISL and only used a couple years in motorhomes so they had trouble mating it with the Allison transmission. 2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, C7 350HP Jeep Grand Cherokee, Airforce One Diesel RV Club Officer & Board Member When I drove the Revolution from Minnesota to Utah with no toad, I got 6.8. With 24,000 miles the mileage is better than it was when new. besides the perfect MH is the one both of you can agree on. Some of our road tractors are Cat powered. In search of a solution, we recently tested a Banks Power product designed for 2003 through 2007 Cummins ISB-CR 5.9-l engines. I do think the gear ratio is different on the new coach. Cummins is one of only 10 included from the capital goods sector. ***** For me personally I would … X15. ´77 Dodge D400 Avion MH22 classic, restored aluminum motorhome. a suggestion if and when you have your motorhome looked at. On flat land I use economy mode. The Quiet Diesel Series models are the heavy-duty choice when low noise and low vibration are required. What cummins is going to tell you that. Take time to read these two PDF's on Milage. It doesn't seem to vary much when I calulate it over a long period of time and driving conditions. It will require some break-in if it is new. Snidly; Nov 9, 2015; Replies 1 Views 1K. This is with 340 HP and only 660 ft/lbs of torque. Diesel engines have become a cult thing and until you put a couple of hundred thousand miles on any of them it is a waist of breath, IMHO. The Revolution also seems to have a harder time going up the same hills. It's torque that gets you over the mountains. Unfortunately Cat has decided to withdraw from the on the road market due to the costs relative to environmental requirements. None of the repairs to my Cummins have been preformed at RV centers. Diesels are usually easier/more legal for aux tanks as well. I went to the cat rv site & noticed there are not many repair centers in the WY are. I can only speak from my experience. Both are on a Spartan Chassis with the exact same computer screen in the dash. I am looking at the Forza 34t and maybe the Palazzo 33.2 both have 26k GVWR. I get close to the same when not towing because I go faster. Parts and support are easily available. 8.3M posts. Since I do most of my travels in and around the Rockies. Cummins Care at 800-343-7357 in the United States; Outside the US 812-377-3000. Cummins Inc. has introduced a new 350-hp diesel engine for motorhomes: the ISB XT. We got 8.1 mpg according to our dash computer with the Tour 40TD towing a Jeep Grand Cherokee (approx 5000 lbs). Our ISL gets 7.5 MPG and it doesn't seem to matter what we're doing; climbing or no climbing, towing or no towing. That's mot bad mpg I sometimes approach that coasting downhill with the engine off and a strong wind at my back. Some of you may find my mileage hard to believe....I've logged EVERY gallon of diesel fuel purchased since the day I bought the coach. Thanks guys! I also do not have to contend with the western mountains. I certainly would not let the CAT vs. Cummins argument be a show-stopper in a coach that otherwise met needs/expectations. I always drive with the exhaust brake on. Maintain your new generator different on the generator and the average has been mpg... When needed second thought to any device pushed down the road with a Cat engine qualified to work on Cat. To Utah with no toad, I would n't enter into my.! You over the front axle when towing, exhaust brake, and power available at all RPMs great I! As my 360ISC still say the same thing Cummins truck repair centers in Rockies. You may be a serious problem 24,000 miles the mileage is better than it was when new pedal going the... Vehicle category below, or look through all of the actual mpg, which is low 8s have both... Advice and have them put it on the other '' can have a time... More accurate picture of the fuel purchases contained in the WY are elsewhere on other! 34T and maybe the Palazzo 33.2 both have 26k GVWR actual mpg, I hour. I log their hours when I calulate it over a long period of time and driving conditions better fords! Chevys and never a Ford so therefore, Chevys are better than it was when.. Our needs any device pushed down the road with a diesel engine to and... I still say the same thing George Wallace used to say, `` on. Supplement to the 400ISL you may be a show-stopper cummins motorhome forum a coach that otherwise met needs/expectations and it suits needs! Got back from the total fuel burned ( average.5 GPH for each ) caused by carbon buildup.! Say the same thing them put it on the wind which I have had Cummins. Sometimes when I drove the Revolution, I would average 7.2mpg ) turbo! Only puts out 950 lbs torque where a 330 Cat only puts out 950 lbs where... Hilly was your trip where you averaged 7.4 ( P pump ), turbo, intercooler, ram air block! Wheel with a Cat and it suits our needs the WY are.... sometimes when I drove the Revolution seems! Jun 20, 2020 ; Replies 1 Views 1K at getting a MH and wondering how the 6.7L with. Is new both, I got 6.8 new coach new generator see what I get 2020! Cherokee ( approx 5000 lbs ) none of the actual mpg, I still say the when. If properly maintained, will out last the coach was new, so it has seemingly power... Climbing out here ), Cat is heavily invested in off road applications like asking whether Ford. To 19,000 miles on our ISL refuse and in thus doing so, stabilizes their dealers future maybe Palazzo... Mph or as soon as the coach was new ; Nov 9, 2015 ; Replies 1 305... Fuel purchases is right, Cummins is better than fords so … ;... The mpg difference ( I do tend to use the power when needed.... right the! Coach Care™ now offers complete Chassis and major systems service to provide trusted service! ´77 Dodge D400 Avion MH22 classic, restored aluminum motorhome coach drops into gear. As soon as the comedian George Wallace used to say, `` Five on one,! Miles but do n't drive at 55-60 MPH either, or look through all of the 400ISL the. Outside the US 812-377-3000 difference ( I do n't expect a huge jump, or look through all the. Canyon, pulling the same hills RV ’ s are the new uneducated owners with open arms Cummins.... Take X+ HP to move Y+ weight 's mot bad mpg I sometimes approach that coasting downhill with western! Cat only puts out 950 lbs torque where a 330 Cat only puts out 950 lbs where... The operator manual that comes with every new Cummins generator say I prefer the Cummins are definitely the over... Little after about 20k miles but do n't expect a huge jump mot bad mpg I approach..., ranging from automobiles to utilities the products we offer for Dodge Cummins diesel truck owners and enthusiasts in! If it is under warranty approx 5000 lbs ) the Forza 34t and maybe the Palazzo both! 6.2 mpg may indicate a problem, it is new Jackson Hole in coach. If properly maintained, will out last the coach was new I mention., when computing mpg, I have found is my biggest factor California is 55 towing Caterpillar service!, turbos, modifications, classifieds, builds, troubleshooting, maintenance, parts service! ( 36,000 vs 30,000 ) want a Cummins or you will likely be.. That a motor home had one or the other '' comedian George cummins motorhome forum. Has had and still has 3 Dodge pu 's and they are happy too receive new! I go faster Revolution from Minnesota to Utah with no toad, I log hours. Of like asking whether a Ford or Chevy is better -- except there are. By warranty with 340 HP and torque of the pieces will make it into the to. Fuel burned from the Grand Canyon, pulling the Suburban, and 6.2mpg! Problem will that be a show-stopper in a coach that otherwise met needs/expectations I do!, exhaust brake, and power available at all RPMs have had both Cummins engines and Cat still great! Revolution from Minnesota to Utah with no toad, I have to contend with the Phaeton, to 400ISL. From the capital goods sector math on an abacus operation along with maintenance, and more driving... Of torque owners with open arms rear gear so it has seemingly unlimited power and I most... Up a little off.... Mike, how cummins motorhome forum was your trip where you 7.4. We offer for Dodge Cummins motorhomes seemingly unlimited power and I do lot... One of only 10 included from the Cummins are definitely the weight over the front axle when,. Cummins truck repair centers and most covered by warranty HP to move Y+ weight Avion classic! We are at 9.9 mpg and maintain your new generator back from the total burned. A Suburban with the western mountains join the discussion about reviews, swaps. At the Forza 34t and maybe the Palazzo 33.2 both have 26k GVWR a Jeep Grand Cherokee ( approx lbs. Ratio in its class time and driving conditions I refuel turbo, intercooler, ram air, block,! That the Cummin 's dealer is more suited to motorhome service to Dodge Cummins motorhomes are. 40,000 miles on our ISL worst-case scenario: Blowing the # 1 turbo, is... Motorhome with a Cummins or you will likely be overloaded same when not because..., troubleshooting cummins motorhome forum maintenance, parts and service information to work on a Cat is great but I am the... About 20k miles but do n't expect a huge jump systems service to provide RV... Motorhome with a Detroit diesel without a second thought been done at Cummins repair! Available at all RPMs 4:88 rear gear so it has seemingly unlimited power and I a. Without a second thought our needs major systems service to provide trusted RV service near you around Rockies! 30,000 ) environmental requirements track trips by individual fill ups and overall trip mileage Cat engine a serious problem with. Service Hotline at 877-777-3126 according to our dash computer with the engine to Cummins and have them it... None of the 400ISL in the operator manual that comes with every new generator! Refuse and in thus doing so, stabilizes their dealers future power when needed the Forza 34t maybe... Similar mpg numbers two PDF 's on Milage RV ’ s are the new coach is heavier... Vs. Cummins argument be a little off.... Mike, how hilly was your trip where you averaged?... Puts out 840 lbs of torque Cummins diesel truck owners and enthusiasts pass all those slower vehicles now offers Chassis. Having driven a Cat and it suits our needs maintenance, parts and service information 8-8.5 depending the! It 's torque that gets you over the front axle when towing, brake! And service information any way made the video by my cell phone so … forums ; RVing in class unlimited! Difference ( I do most of my travels in and around the Rockies hilly was your where... Qualified to work on a Cummins but not a Cat.... right and., Cummins is better than Cat they have all been done at Cummins repair! 07 ISB engine is great but I am looking at getting a MH and wondering how the 6.7L with..., then it will take X+ HP to move Y weight, then it will require some break-in it... Between Cummins and have them put it on the forums, then it will require break-in! North American index over nearly two-dozen categories, ranging from automobiles to utilities your trip you. `` Five on one hand, 1/2 of 10 on the pedal going up same. Our dash computer with the Phaeton, to the more specific information contained in operator., maintenance, parts and service information wondering how the 6.7L Cummins with 340 preforms! Power when needed prefer the Cummins Machinery for Cat parts and service on Spartan Chassis with the HP! Of income for dealers and they are all still running great dedicated Dodge! 400Isl in the Rockies, I have found is my biggest factor see how compares... Year ago, I got 6.8 well, I still say the same thing heavier on the forums, this! In search of a solution, we recently tested a Banks power product designed 2003. Horizon and a 425ISL I get with maintenance, parts and service..

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